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Bodybuilding Peptides and Insulin Discuss peptide cycles, doses, how to mix HGH, IGF-1, MGF, Insulin and many other anabolic Peptides




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  #1  
Old 07-05-2017, 08:24 PM
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Anybody still use insulin?

I tried it many years ago when I had no source for anything, probably 15 years ago gained about 20 solid pounds taking humulin R pre work out that never left went from 250 to 270. Really only played with it once in a while since then other than to stabilize blood sugar levels when doing GH.
I experimented a few times with doses of up to 40 iu's of R and never even broke a sweat was taking a massive shake of grape juice glutamine and dextrose and whey protein.

Reason I ask this is many people say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread and others are opposite with GH.

I was gonna try 10 -15 ius' of R mid work out EOD to see if anything happens.

Those guys on PRO -M say the secret is insulin an the pros take up to 100 ius a day of long fast and short acting insulin.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:54 PM
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Never had the guts to do it during a workout myself so can't comment there. I did here it gives great pumps that way. Would love to hear some personal experiences. I did try slin twice. I agree the gains were great. I did hum r as well, post workout. I started with only 10 iu. I did get up to 25 iu so nothing close to thst 100 lol. How many carbs did you consume per iu? Just curious. I was debating on slin my next round myself. Of course I saw the price now on slin and was debating whether or not it was worth it lol. I remember when I used it I think I paid like 25-30 per 10 mL at the pharmacy. I quick searched online and it seems it has drastically jumped. More on topic though, I found I grew like a weed and got very solid on it as well.

big-guy
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2017, 10:31 PM
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who ever "those guys" are they are liars. is there a pro using 100 iu over a 24 hour period? probably. is that the "secret" hell no. are they all doing that? hell no. post work out is safest. no more than 10 iu and thats 5 more than maybe the biggest guy on this board recommends. guys like us always think more is better but with insulin you get diminishing returns. you get more chance of dying and gaining fat by going so high on the dosage.

this is like the guy who said pros were takin 4 grams of anabolics a week year long. jesus man.

search my screen name and read my insulin faq
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:53 PM
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i got a buddy who was prepping for a show, it didn't do him wrong....

my understanding was (GH + Slin) * legit diet = holy grail

but if any part of that equation was off, you're ....ed. period. like, not-worth-it-....ed. hence why i've never tried it.

if you've got experience with it and know how to avoid going full retard during low blood sugar, i say go for it if you've got good stuff
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:15 PM
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Insulin really isn't any different than anything else we do, you just have to put the time in with it.

I made the best gains running low to moderate aas doses, 5iu gh and mixing Log and R for different spikes injecting pre workout and a little more Log post before the meal.

I wasn't worried to much about the timing of the spikes because I just sipped on an intra workout shake. I also ran a few ius of log before some meals as well.

I tried dosing it higher but I didn't dig the look on it.

Once you get used to it you will find what works best for you in your comfort zone.

H
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Old 07-06-2017, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Massive G View Post
I tried it many years ago when I had no source for anything, probably 15 years ago gained about 20 solid pounds taking humulin R pre work out that never left went from 250 to 270. Really only played with it once in a while since then other than to stabilize blood sugar levels when doing GH.
I experimented a few times with doses of up to 40 iu's of R and never even broke a sweat was taking a massive shake of grape juice glutamine and dextrose and whey protein.

Reason I ask this is many people say it is the greatest thing since sliced bread and others are opposite with GH.

I was gonna try 10 -15 ius' of R mid work out EOD to see if anything happens.

Those guys on PRO -M say the secret is insulin an the pros take up to 100 ius a day of long fast and short acting insulin.

As you probably know, using insulin as a stand alone is not going to do so much but combining it with HGH is the key. Insulin works synergistically with GH and IGF-1 to further increase hypertrophy especially when plenty of amino acids are present.

I am not so sure these huge amounts are necessary either. All that will do is help shut down receptors and eventually shut your own insulin down. When insulin receptors shut down fat is easily stored too.

Seems the big thing now is taking smaller amounts ever three hours with smaller doses of HGH. 2iu of both with each meal and before and after training. You will not have to worry with taking in a lot of sugar as long as you are eating some complex carbs in your diet. So going hypo is not a worry either. 2iu of insulin combined with HGH over a period of 5 injections is enough to drive muscle synthesis through the roof and increase the amount of IGF-1 in your blood. The total here would be 10-12 iu insulin and 10iu of HGH. If you are on a budget, peptides can be used with HGH or even MK677.

Last edited by bigtex; 07-06-2017 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtex View Post
As you probably know, using insulin as a stand alone is not going to do so much but combining it with HGH is the key. Insulin works synergistically with GH and IGF-1 to further increase hypertrophy especially when plenty of amino acids are present.

I am not so sure these huge amounts are necessary either. All that will do is help shut down receptors and eventually shut your own insulin down. When insulin receptors shut down fat is easily stored too.

Seems the big thing now is taking smaller amounts ever three hours with smaller doses of HGH. 2iu of both with each meal and before and after training. You will not have to worry with taking in a lot of sugar as long as you are eating some complex carbs in your diet. So going hypo is not a worry either. 2iu of insulin combined with HGH over a period of 5 injections is enough to drive muscle synthesis through the roof and increase the amount of IGF-1 in your blood. The total here would be 10-12 iu insulin and 10iu of HGH. If you are on a budget, peptides can be used with HGH or even MK677.
that is interesting, any reseacch on it?
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by acneman View Post
that is interesting, any reseacch on it?
I am not aware of any research to fully back this protocol (but will look), but this is what I hear the current trend is. We do know the negative feedback mechanism involved in hormones - by means of down-regulation of existing insulin receptors. So the higher the blood insulin levels the more the negative feedback to natural production. I am guessing it makes sense that high doses over time could temporarily greatly reduce or even shut down insulin production in the body. So keeping the doses smaller but at 3 or so hours apart (with meals) keep the levels high enough to effect hypertrophy but not so high that the negative feedback loop is going to shut down production naturally. It is also not so high you will have to take in a whole lot of sugar to accommodate for the insulin. COmplex carbs eaten with meals should be more than enough.

We also know, muscle protein synthesis (MPS) is not only high as we train or immediately afterwards but MPS is more than double at 24 hrs, and thereafter declines rapidly so that at 36 hrs it has almost returned to baseline. So it makes sense to keep supersaturating the muscle cell with amino acids and glucose by using insulin and keeping the blood GH levels constantly high during this time.

We know the circulating half-life of hGH is relatively short half-life (20-30 minutes), it peaks in about 2.5 hours and is about at baseline at 4 hours. The half life of Humalog is about 3-5 hours (depending on how much body fat you posses). So it makes sense again to keep these levels at a higher during the time MPS is high to help supply the muscle cell with nutrients and to help the IGF-1 levels to be high. Ok, so what about when you sleep. As I hear....there are pros that get up in the middle of the night, eat and so hGH/insulin. Not something I am willing to do because I have to get up and work.

We also know this same negative feed back loop exists with GH production. Taking hGH will slow and eventually shut down natural pulses. They will eventually restart once you stop though. I do believe I saw some research (have to find it) that found taking peptides with hGH prevented this from happening. Which is why I always add peptides or MK677 to hGH.

I would love to see research in this area but there is just nothing available that is directed at the use of insulin on bodybuilding. Most of this is just anecdotal. But then it also make sense that side effects are usually increased with dosage. Low doses will cause less side effects that high doses. So again it makes sense to keep the dose of insulin low and avoid the side effects associated with higher dose.

So with this protocol you are taking a fairly high total dose of insulin and hGH but you are spreading it out over the day in much smaller dose hoping to avoid the side effects with high single doses. You are also taking advantage of the food you eat after training when MPS is at its highest. I have changed my insulin/hGH protocol to this one to see if it really help stimulate more growth. Been doing it for almost a week now. I have not used any dextrose with the insulin I take and have not had any hypoglycemia.

I do the following:
Breakfast
CJC 1296 no dac 100mcg/GHRP-6 200mcg/2iu Humalog
Lunch
CJC 1296 no dac 100mcg/GHRP-6 200mcg/2iu Humalog/50mcg IGF-1 Lr3
Pre-workout
2iu hGH/2iu Humalog/25mg MK677
Dinner
CJC 1296 no dac 100mcg/GHRP-6 200mcg/2iu Humalog

I also use 500mg of Metformin at breakfast and dinner. Side effects so far, some mild water retention, stiffness in the medium hands and carpal tunnel pain in the wrist. I also take benicar HCT for blood pressure control. That helps reduce water retention. I eat a medium carb, high protein diet using only complex carbs.


Here is a great graph that shows how IGF-1, hGH, insulin and aminos all work synergistically to cause hypertrophy.



Here is a study that may shed some light on lower doses:

Kin-Chuen Leung, Nathan Doyle, Mercedes Ballesteros, Michael J. Waters, And Ken K. Y. Ho. Insulin Regulation of Human Hepatic Growth Hormone Receptors: Divergent Effects on Biosynthesis and Surface Translocation. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 2000 Vol. 85 No. 12 4712-4720

In this study they found that insulin up-regulated total and intracellular GH-receptors in a concentration-dependent manner. So insulin enables the body to be able to absorb more GH through an increase in GH receptors. However they go on to say there is a point in which too much can cause a negative effect by hindering the number of receptors. That comes out to about (10 nmol/L) or 7.5-9iu. So 5-6iu may possibly the max you can inject at one time without negating the positive effects insulin has on GH receptors. It seems very possible that by injecting much smaller amounts keep the blood insulin levels under the point at which negative effects happen. But by doing low iu injections multiple times a day you can maximize the positive effects. So this in my mind gives credence to this theory.

I am also reading some anecdotal advice that claim that taking large dose of HGH (15iu) desensitize the intracellular pathways that GH triggers in the first place and they just turn off no matter how much GH is around. By using smaller amounts over a period (2-4iu) of a day you can avoid this. If you insist on using larger amounts it is best to go every other day or even every 3 days. Looking for research to back this claim too.

Last edited by bigtex; 07-07-2017 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 07-07-2017, 01:34 PM
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3-4iu hgh+ 3-4 units humulin R immediately pre workout. 20g EAA with 5-10g glutamine infra workout. I Carry glucose tabs if I feel a little low, usually only happens on leg day.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggy38 View Post
3-4iu hgh+ 3-4 units humulin R immediately pre workout. 20g EAA with 5-10g glutamine infra workout. I Carry glucose tabs if I feel a little low, usually only happens on leg day.
Same protocol I did when I used R. I went up to 10ius pre workout. I always did better going no higher than 5ius without putting on water/fat. I find it more difficult when I go higher. I've done 40ius/day. Grew like a mofo but fat like Rosie O'Donnel...
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