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Old 03-02-2011, 10:13 PM
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A few words on sweet spots and doses

It seems that over the years I have seen guys that respond to almost nothing and those that don't respond on anything less than a gram of test plus a gram of something else. I think there are several factors that govern effective doses.

1. Genetics
2. Past drug doses and duration
3. Past compounds used

Genetics is huge
Some guys seem to get F***all out of a gram a week of test right from the get go. I think Balco did a study years ago and I also thing the East Germans did studies using turanabol and both basically termed these people non-responders. These guys are just missing something genetically or have really efficient metabolisms to excrete steroids. It sucks to be one of these guys I guess. I remember one guy back in late 80s that would do 2 grams of oils and a bunch of d-bol and would gain 5 lbs. Rather than brag on gains he would brag on how much junk be could cram in. I remember another guy from the same time period. He would do 200 mg of deca a week and put on 30 lbs so fast it was frightening. I remember on d-bol only cycle he started on 15 mg a day and his calves blew up so fast he ripped one.

Past drug doses and duration
The more you use the more you need. Taking huge doses trains the body to adjust to the big thud. Probably this is not the best thing for the organs. The liver and kidneys have to excrete this stuff so the tissues have to metabolize these things. Liver grows back but kidneys don't. If you get stuck in a vicious cycle like this it's probably a good idea to take a good long down time to let the body forget that it has to remove the stuff as fast as possible because it's owner is into 5 ml syringes and T400. If you're a TRT guy then maybe just do a TRT dose for 6 months. That seems to do the trick. If you're not a TRT guy well that sucks b/c if you've been hammering 2-4 grams for 3 years restart is going to take a year and a half if it's going to happen at all.

Past compounds used
Gears come in different molecular configurations. Some work like a gang of masons whacked out on Aderall building a sky scraper. Some work like an old lady stacking pennies. If your first cycle is a gram of test and a 1/2 a gram of tren you're pretty much going to get F***all from anything more mild. Forget using equipoise and anavar. Might as well eat M&Ms and shoot olive oil at that point. That's probably why its best to start out with the more mild stuff at first and move to the harder stuff when the more mild and moderate stuff doesn't afford you what you're looking for any more. How many times have you seen a 22 year old swole as 180 pounder looking to do a test tren cycle for his second go? Bugger probably never even did a dead lift before but is ready for trenbolone to get his swole on. Next thing you know he's on 5 iu of GH a day and wants to know the best protocol for insulin with his pizza.

So what the hell is a sweet spot?
Well if you do reasonable blast and cruises or take decent down time to let the body find itself from time to time and go about testing compounds in a logical fashion you probably realize there is a sweet spot of total mg a week given certain favored compounds. It's different for person to person but you can find it. Crank things up and the body goes wacky. Water retention increases. Energy levels dive. Sleep patterns go in the crapper. Appetite goes nuts. Metabolism dives or goes into hyperdrive.

A sweet spot is nice. Everything seems to be working. Strength is up and climbing. Water retention is down. Focus and energy are up. Vascularity is up. Appetite is in control and helps keep the diet clean. Metabolism is fast. Skin isn't to oily. No nipple sensitivity. Can play sports without gassing out.

So how not to find the sweet spot?
Well I'll tell you one way to not find the sweet spot is to post a look at all the gear I got now how do I work it into a cycle thread (Paul this is not directed at you.). I see this all the time. Some guy will be planning his 3rd cycle and buy 6 or 7 compounds and lots of them. He'll have like Tren, Deca, equipoise, Test, anadrol, Dianabol and Winstrol. So he has 80% of the AAS arsenal and he wants to shoot all of it in a 3-4 months time frame. He wants to jam them all into a 16 week cycle and he has enough to run like 2.5 grams of total gear a week. WRONG WRONG WRONG!

Now fast forward 6 weeks. The guy is posting threads like how much Dostinex should I be running and what is the letro protocol for gyno removal and I can't stop sweating etc etc. 16 weeks passes and he feels pretty crappy outside the gym. He's broken out all over and has put on a whopping 16 lbs. His joints feel like glass from 75 mg of winstrol a day. Now 4 weeks past is cycle and he is in PCT and crashing hard. At 10 weeks post cycle he has lost pretty much everything and he can't seem to get a pump in the gym. He goes back on even though his body can't find itself. The vicious cycle continues.

So how to find the sweet spot?
Use AAS systematically. First couple cycles should be testosterone only with an AI. Feel out the compound for dose response and side effects. Get a grip on it. Next 3 cycles or so add in one anabolic to the test base. Feel out the compound the same way. Keep an eye on side effects versus total gear. You should be able to somewhat dial in the best dose range for you over 12-14 week cycle. A few cycles later experiment with orals the same way. Pick your favorite test + anabolic and add in your oral at the last 6 weeks of your cycle. Ramp it a little. See where you start having sides that effect the positives. Probably one of the worst things I did in the beginning is list out a cycle with to much gear in it. I was somehow tied into a regiment that kept me toxic the whole cycle rather than listening to my body and adjusting within reason. that's how we train and adjust our diets. Gear should not be that different.

A word on esters
Short esters are easier to evaluate. They are in and out fast. You can gauge the dose versus effects much easier. It's easier to dial in Masteron propionate than Masteron enanthate. Equipoise is really hard to gauge. It takes forever to feel it and then the dose response is delayed so you can for instance front load it and get into a situation with anxiety that does not respond to a cut in dose for many weeks. Mid length esters are OK to deal with. NPP is easier to deal with than deca.

A word on ancillaries
It's probably always a good idea to start out with a bit of AI in your cycle assuming that you always have test in the mix. Other than that mostly ancillaries are for stamping out fires or for guys that insist on huge doses beyond what their bodies can handle on their own. All of these things have their own set of sides. Some exceptions might be blood pressure meds. Almost everyone gets some hypertension late into a cycle. It's best to keep this under control since it is a: huge organ stressor, risk for stroke and especially bad on the kidneys. Kidneys don't grow back. I prefer to donate blood rather than take a angiotensin blocker or some such drug.

Just be cool and dial it in. You'll be able to train much more effectively and feel a hell of a lot better. When you feel healthy you act healthy and you live more healthy b/c you can feel what works.


Although this article is a compilation of anecdotal information and experience here are some references that support major concepts expressed in it.

Relationship of androgen receptor polymorphism and skeletal muscle androgen response:

There are many clinical and subclinical diseases associated with polymorphisms and mutations seen in the androgen signaling pathways. Below are a few examples of such polymorphisms seen in the androgen receptor. Keep in mind that there are literally over 100 components involved in androgen signaling the dysfunction or altered function of any could potentially lead to altered androgen response.

1. Nielsen TL, Hagen C, Wraae K, Bathum L, Larsen R, Brixen K, Andersen M.,
The impact of the CAG repeat polymorphism of the androgen receptor gene on muscle and adipose tissues in 20-29-year-old Danish men: Odense Androgen Study. Eur J Endocrinol. 2010 Apr;162(4):795-804. Epub 2010 Feb 4.

2. Yu Z, Wang AM, Robins DM, Lieberman AP., Altered RNA splicing contributes to skeletal muscle pathology in Kennedy disease knock-in mice. Dis Model Mech. 2009 Sep-Oct;2(9-10):500-7. Epub 2009 Aug 19.

3. Sorarù G, D'Ascenzo C, Polo A, Palmieri A, Baggio L, Vergani L, Gellera C, Moretto G, Pegoraro E, Angelini C., Spinal and bulbar muscular atrophy: skeletal muscle pathology in male patients and heterozygous females. J Neurol Sci. 2008 Jan 15;264(1-2):100-5. Epub 2007 Sep 12.

4. Woodhouse LJ, Reisz-Porszasz S, Javanbakht M, Storer TW, Lee M, Zerounian H, Bhasin S., Development of models to predict anabolic response to testosterone administration in healthy young men. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 May;284(5):E1009-17. Epub 2003 Jan 7.


Steroid metabolism and excretion

Steroid metabolism is a field of interest in sport and medicine. Anabolic steroids, as in natural occurring endogenous steroids, are metabolized in the liver and kidneys. These molecules are hydroxylated, sulfates and glucuronosylated to name a few modifications. These modifications are performed to target the metabolites to the bile system and the kidney excretion system. These processes are inducible and their activities shift with steroid load. This is the basis for steroid drug testing. Below is an article on metabolism in horse racing, an area of active research and interest and a reference to a book chapter that describes said metabolism.

5. Nussey, S.S. and Whitehead, S.A., Endocrinology: An Integrated Approach: chapter 39. London:Taylor & Francis; c2001

6. Teale P, Houghton E., Metabolism of anabolic steroids and their relevance to drug detection in horseracing. Bioanalysis. 2010 Jun;2(6):1085-107.

For information describing steroid esters see

7. Chaudry MA, James KC, Ng CT, Nicholls PJ., Anabolic and androgenic activities, in rat, of some nandrolone and androstanolone esters. J Pharm Pharmacol. 1976 Dec;28(12):882-5.

Masuoka M, Shikata M, Fuziwara R, Nakayama R., Anti-androgen TSAA-291. II. Manifestation of the anti-androgenic action of a steroid ester TSAA-330 (16 beta-ethyl-17 beta-hydroxy-4-oestren-3-one caproate) and elucidation of its long-lasting mechanism using a simple steroid determination technique. Acta Endocrinol Suppl (Copenh). 1979;229:24-35.

Chaudry AQ, James KC. A Hansch analysis of the anabolic activities of some nandrolone esters. J Med Chem. 1974 Feb;17(2):157-61.
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  #2  
Old 03-31-2011, 08:47 AM
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Thumbs up

Nice write up here!..Thanks
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:01 AM
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another nice article...
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:56 AM
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good read...I always hear some kind of crazy usuage/doses like one guy at my gym doing 10gm of test a week mixed with other compounds...he looks rough, yes but he's a freak as well
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:05 PM
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Reading your arcticles show me how much I have matured in my thinking .......and am still learning
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:53 PM
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nice article, good read
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:44 AM
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Thumbs up nice

Great thread! makes sense to start slow and mild, evaluate then adj... so forth. Thanks
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:24 AM
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can't believe i missed this one, book it dano, it is the truth
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Old 03-12-2013, 02:34 PM
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as a beginner into this new world of "abs" with out any test runs yet
this article makes me thinks a bit smarter of plans that I have
one thing to take in mind
playing around in the jungle is NOT a joke
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:40 AM
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Definitely a good read mate.

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