World Class Bodybuilding   Forum

BulkSupplements Egg Whites International A1Supplements.com i-Supplements HideMyAss
Go Back   World Class Bodybuilding Forum > Articles By Author > Glycomann's Articles

Shoutbox
Loading...





Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:27 AM
Glycomann's Avatar
Glycomann Glycomann Is online now
Lumpy Moderator

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chopping wood or laying pipe.
Posts: 9,933
Thanks: 993
Thanked 4,230 Times in 2,668 Posts
Rep Power: 1488
Glycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond repute
Ergogenic peptides of the Growth Hormone Axis

I have put together a thread to explain the growth hormone axis as I understand it. It also goes into the common peptides currently being used as ergogenic aids that work at different levels in this axis. It is a fairly technical read. Of course I am available for questions.


The growth hormone axis is the most often targeted system of ergogenic peptides. Before delving into the use and abuse of these compounds it is important that we first understand, best as we can, the system that is targeted. In that vein I will first describe this system and the downstream events that lead to development of muscle tissue.


The Growth Hormone Axis

The major components of the growth hormone axis are brain, pituitary, liver, stomach and target tissues. Upon stimulation via growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) or growth hormone releasing peptides (GHRP), released from the neurosecretory nuclei of the hypothalamus, growth hormone is secreted from the somatotropes of the pituitary. Growth hormone acts primarily at the liver to produce a series of growth promoting factors commonly referred to as somatomedins. The major somatomedins are somatomedins -1, -2 and -3 also know as insulin-like growth factor 2 (IGF-2), vitronectin and insulin related growth factor 1 (IGF-1). The major function of IGF-2 is in tissue growth during gestation. Vitronectin functions in cell migration and cell anchoring. IGF-1 has been a major focus of biomedical research for the past 2 decades as it is involved in growth, proliferation and maintenance of most cell types including skeletal muscle.

Ghrelin provides the major stimulus to GH recreation. It is secreted by the cell of the P/D1cells of the stomach and the epsilon cells of the pancreas. It is also produced by the arcuate nucleus cells of the hypothatamus. Levels increase with onset of hunger and decrease after meals in concert with increased leptin secretion on satiation. Ghrelin binds to the growth hormone releasing hormone receptor (GHRHr). In the early to mid 1990s endocrine researchers synthesized a series of peptides (GHRP) that were found to stimulate GH secretion. They were thought to bind to GHRHr. Later the native GHRP was isolated and the synthetics were abandoned. About the year 2000 there was a resurgence of interest in the synthetic GHRPs. The current understanding is that the GHRHs and GHRPs provide stimulus through different receptors. This has been shown through differential stimulation of GH/IGF-1 secretion. If GHRH or its downstream pathway components are blocked chemically or genetically GHRP but not GHRH can still stimulation GH/IGF-1 secretion. The GHRPr was isolated by affinity capture in 1999 by Nilsson et al. GHRPr and GHRHr operate through different signal transduction pathway outlined in the figure below.
__________________
See Glycomann's articles http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/f497/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Glycomann For This Useful Post:
Thunder (02-28-2011)
Get your liquid egg whites here at EGG WHITES INTERNATIONAL

  #2  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:29 AM
Glycomann's Avatar
Glycomann Glycomann Is online now
Lumpy Moderator

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chopping wood or laying pipe.
Posts: 9,933
Thanks: 993
Thanked 4,230 Times in 2,668 Posts
Rep Power: 1488
Glycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond repute

GHRHr operates through protein kinase A and GHRPr through protein kinase C signal transduction pathways. Stimulation of both pathways is additive. Stimulation of GH release with some synthetic GHRPs reestablish the normal pulsitile nature of release or increase the amplitude of release or both. Some secretogogues such as GHRP-6 and the non-peptide mimetic MK-0677 been shown to restore the pulsitile nature of GH secretion in older to that of younger adults. Co-stimulation of both receptors appears to restore pulsitility and increase amplitude. In clinical circles secretogogues are an area of much interest. Unlike hGH treatment, segretogogue treatment does not bypass GH release control mechanisms. Therefore, treatments would not be likely to induce unwanted side effects or disease states caused by supra-physiologic levels of hGH.

IGF-1 Actions
.
At the business end of the growth hormone axis is the production of IGF-1 production.
There are IGF-1 receptors in nearly all tissues. Liver-derived IGF-I is involved in the regulation of GH secretion, cortical bone mass, kidney size, prostate size, peripheral vascular resistance, spatial memory, sodium retention, insulin sensitivity, liver size, sexually dimorphic liver functions, and progression of some tumors. There is evidence that IGF-1 has neuroprotective activities as well. It is clear that a major role of liver-derived IGF-I is to regulate GH secretion. Therefore, treatment with IGF-1 and its analogues may cause hGH suppression. On the other hand, hGH secretogogue treatment will likely not result in prolonged supra-physiologic levels of hGH and would likely be more therapeutic rather than severely growth enhancing.

While the major portion of IGF-1 is supplied by the liver, many tissues also produce it. All secretion is stimulated by hGH. Cell specific IGF-1 is involved in autocrine/paracrine activities. In terms of skeletal muscle these autocrine/paracrine activities are important for satellite muscle proliferation, differentiation to myoblast and muscle growth. There are several forms of IGF-1. All are transcribed from a single gene. Splice variation provides the diversity and each are translated into slightly different proteins. IGF-1Ec, or MGF is produced in the muscle cell in response to mechanoreception. It has a unique carboxyterminal sequence that shifts its activity toward satellite cell proliferation. Essentially, it primes the pump toward satellite proliferation and to some extent differentiation although the second activity is more favored by the IGF-1 forms produced later in the temporal series of events. Proliferation and differentiation are stimulated through different receptor coupled pathways.

Satellite cells are signaled to proliferate through a signal transduction cascade that is greatly simplified in the above figure. In the end the cell cycle machinery is tipped in favor of cell proliferation by enhanced synthesis of cyclin D1. Concurrent to this stimulus a differention signal is delivered through IGF-1 receptor coupled to a different signal transduction pathway.
__________________
See Glycomann's articles http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/f497/
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:30 AM
Glycomann's Avatar
Glycomann Glycomann Is online now
Lumpy Moderator

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chopping wood or laying pipe.
Posts: 9,933
Thanks: 993
Thanked 4,230 Times in 2,668 Posts
Rep Power: 1488
Glycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond repute

The end result is that a subset of the newly proliferated satellites cells differentiate into myoblasts. Those myoblasts incorporate into existing muscle fibers. The new cells will incorporate and fuse with existing myocytces giving an increase in nuclei, thus, providing the necessary genetic component for high production of contractile and other proteins to support muscle function. The overall process is summarized in the Figure below.

In summary, MGF is first produced in the muscle tissue through selection of specific splice variants. As the process progresses a splice site variant shift occurs toward other IGF-1 forms. Both liver derived and target tissue derived IGF-1 are involved in proliferation, differentiation and growth of new muscle cell fibers where MGF is required for initial proliferation and differentiation events.
__________________
See Glycomann's articles http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/f497/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Glycomann For This Useful Post:
Thunder (02-28-2011)
  #4  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:31 AM
Glycomann's Avatar
Glycomann Glycomann Is online now
Lumpy Moderator

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chopping wood or laying pipe.
Posts: 9,933
Thanks: 993
Thanked 4,230 Times in 2,668 Posts
Rep Power: 1488
Glycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond repute

The figure shown a simplified version of the control mechanisms of hGH release. Somatomedin, or SRIH, serves to inhibit GH release GHRH itself increases its production as does GH and IGF-1. It can be seem from the figure that IGF-1 is a major regulator and feed back inhibitor of GH secretion. GH and IGF-1 also increase secretion of SRIH. So, it can be seen that GH and IGF-1 secretion are self regulating and therefore, under normal circumstances self limiting.

Now that we have a firm grip on the hGH system we can now understand the rational behind its manipulation. Certainly use of hGH itself could lead to increased IGF-1 and subsequent muscle growth and other somatomedin related activities. Ghrelin could also be of interest as it causes release of hGH. However, Ghrelin and analogues also causes prolactin release, which can lead to sexual side effects and gynecomastia. It also leads to increases in hunger. GHRPs also seem interesting. They will likely lead to an increase in hGH secretion but that secretion and subsequent IGF-1 secretion will likely limit the maximum level of hGH secretion to that similar to physiological maximum. The compounds currently available will de discussed.

hGH: As already discussed hGH is a primary actor in the growth hormone axis and leads to production of many somatomedins including IGF-1. use of hGH as an ergogenic aid has many attractive attributes. Unlike use of IGF-1 or other GHA stimulants the amount of hGH is only limited by the amount injected. Presumably all somatomedins will be produced in the presence of synthetic hGH, therefore possible providing some advantage over alternatives. Unlike anabolic steroids, which primarily cause growth in skeletal muscle, bone and secondary sex organs such as prostate, hGH likely produces growth in all tissues. While this is good and bad it may be attractive to athletes that are attempting to recover from connective tissue damage. It is however, less attractive to produce growth in other tissues like internal organs. At higher doses the resulting IGF-1 concentrations can lead to insulin insensitivity. The primary cause of this is IGF-1’s similarity to insulin. In essence, the insulin receptor is blocked by IGF-1. The level at which this becomes problematic appears to be user dependant. Therefore it is advisable to use a blood glucose monitor if experimenting with hGH as symptoms of hypoglycemia can result. In such cases many users choose to use insulin and glucose monitoring to control this problem. Clinically a dose of 0.06–0.10 IU/kg three times a week for treatment of childhood deficiency has been suggested (Lunde Jorgenson, 1991, Endocrine Reviews 12 (3): 189-207). In HRT treatments doses in the range of 0.03 IU/kg/week have been used. However increased BP and edema have been problematic. In these cases reduction of the dose to 0.01 IU/kg/wk has been successful (Amato, J. Clin. Endocrin. and Met. 1993;77:1671-1676). In practice those interested in anti-aging
effects use between 1 and 3 IU on varying schedules from 3 times a week to every day. For those in search of significant gains in lean body mass a common dose range is 4-10 IU on a schedule of 5-7 days a week. Off days are thought to allow the growth hormone axis to return to normal somewhat. To my knowledge there is no evidence to support or refute this idea.

A word of caution. There is a large amount of under ground laboratory hGH on the black market. Often these are severely under dosed or complete fakes. Users of prescribed hGH that have switched to UGL hGH almost unanimously state that the UGL is under dosed. Therefore it is almost non-sensical to prescribe a dose for the UGL drug.
__________________
See Glycomann's articles http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/f497/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Glycomann For This Useful Post:
Thunder (02-28-2011)
  #5  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:31 AM
Glycomann's Avatar
Glycomann Glycomann Is online now
Lumpy Moderator

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chopping wood or laying pipe.
Posts: 9,933
Thanks: 993
Thanked 4,230 Times in 2,668 Posts
Rep Power: 1488
Glycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond repute
Synthetic Ergogenic Peptides Related to the Growth Hormone Axis

General Principles

Hyperglycemia, elevated free fatty acid levels, exogenous GH, and somatostatin modestly depress the GH secretory response to the GHRP analogues so this should be considered when using them. So prepare your diet and training accordingly.

Compounds

CJC-1295: is a ghrelin analogue that works through stimulation of the GHRH receptor. Authentic CJC-1295 has a lysine linker linked to maleimodoproprionic acid (DAC complex). The compound binds to serum albumin. The modification prevents serum hydrolase access to the peptide backbone thus increasing its half life to 8 days. It was invented by ConjuChem, a Canadian biotechnology company. The true compound is difficult to manufacture. Therefore most of it available on the market is devoid of this modification and has a shorter ˝ life. It has been shown to increase hGH release as much as 3-10 fold and up to 3 fold in IGF-1 and sustained over 7-9 days. Reported effects include tissue rejuvenation, increased vitality, increased lean body mass, decreased visceral fat and overall well being. Doses range from 100 ug to 1500 ug 2 times per week.


Hexarelin: is a GHRP mimetic based on the structure of met-enkephalin, an opioid peptide neurotransmitter. It is composed of peptides of the following sequence: L-Histidyl-2-methyl-D-tryptophyl-L-alanyl-L-tryptophyl-D-phenylalanyl-L-lysinamide. In cultured pituitary somatotrophinoma hGH secretion was increase as much as 4.6 fold. The GH secretory response to hexarelin is less than that to GHRH or hexarelin at the same weight dose (1 mg/kg iv). However, Ghrelin and GHRH cause increased ACTH, cortisol and prolactin secretion whereas this is not the case with Hexarelin. This is also the case with most other GHRP mimetics. In normal young adult males, bolus
intravenous injection of ghrelin (1 mg/kg) acutely increases plasma glucose concentrations while decreasing plasma insulin values, properties not shared by hexarelin. Hexarelin has a relatively short half life so multiple injections are taken per day. Doses range from 1.5 – 3.0 ug/kg per injection. Maximum response occurs at close to 2.0 ug/kg (Deghenghi et al., Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1994;46(5):421-5.). Similar results are seen as those with CJC-1295.


GHRP-6: is nearly identical to hexarelin except that D-Try is not methylated. The three dimensional conformation of this secretogogue has been used to develop the non-peptide secretogogue mimetics such as MK-0677 all of which have oral bioavailability. It’s sequence is based on the same met-enkephalin as hexarelin. Injection of this peptide is followed by a dramatic increase in hunger and a feeling that is described as mild hypoglycemia. This is thought to be related to ghrelin like activity or possibly the stimulation of endogenous ghrelin secretion. Studies in mice have shown significant differences in body composition, muscle growth, glucose metabolism, memory and cardiac function in those treated with GHRP-6. This peptide may be a somatostatin antagonist as treatment relieves the refractoriness of the pituitary to repetitive GHRH boluses. Use of ghrelin, CJC-1295 or other GHRH analogues appears to amplify the GH response. Studies using antagonists of GHRH suppressed GHRP-6 GH response. Therefore in individuals with compromised GHRH production or GHRH receptor, GHRP-6 may be ineffective. This should be considered for those attempting to recover from prolonged treatment with hGH as these systems may be atrophied. It is difficult to predict precisely the amount of release of GH that a single injection of GHRP-6 will produce. Dose in clinical trials was 1 ug/kg. Increases of 30-40 fold over baseline were observed using GHRP-6 alone (Jaffe et al Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism). A typical dose for ergogenic purposes is 100 - 300 ug 1-3 times per day.


GHRP-2: is similar in effect to GHRP-6 except that intense hunger after administration are not a side effect. Therefore is may be more comfortable for some users and especially if attempting to adhere to a restrictive diet. As with other GHRP secretogogues, GHRP-2 is more effective when used in conjunction with a GHRH analogue. However, for those with an intact growth hormone axis endogenous GHRH should provide some synergy. Some research suggests that GHRP-6 causes an increase in endogenous ghrelin secretion and this is supported by increased hunger. One study measured the increase in human trials. GHRP-2 does not cause this increased hunger suggesting that ghrelin is not stimulated with this secretogoue and therefore GHRP-2 is more likely to require a GHRH analogue. It’s activity is inhibited by the actions of GHRH receptor agonists, unlike GHRP-1 and GHRP-6, and therefore must bind at or close to the same region of the GHRH receptor. However, the binding site must be different as GHRH and GHRP-6 co-administration are synergistic.GHRP-2 acts through the PKA pathway whereas GHRP-6 acts through the PKC pathway. Dose rage for ergogenic purposes are reported as 1-3 ug/kg 1-3 times per day.
__________________
See Glycomann's articles http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/f497/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Glycomann For This Useful Post:
Thunder (02-28-2011)
  #6  
Old 02-26-2011, 11:32 AM
Glycomann's Avatar
Glycomann Glycomann Is online now
Lumpy Moderator

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chopping wood or laying pipe.
Posts: 9,933
Thanks: 993
Thanked 4,230 Times in 2,668 Posts
Rep Power: 1488
Glycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond repute
MK0677: is modeled on the three dimensional structure of GHRP-6. It is a non-peptidal GHRP mimetic and is orally bioavailable. After a single oral dose of MK-0677, pulsatile serum concentrations of hGH are increased for 24 hours. MK-0677 induces persistent, dose dependent (2, 10, 25 mg once daily for 14-28 days) increases in serum concentrations of hGH and IGF-I in healthy young and elderly adult subjects. This is an interesting compound as it is well tolerated and removes the necessity for daily injections.


IGF-1 LR3: Long R3 Insulin-like Growth Factor-I is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3, and an N-terminal 13 amino acid extension. The modification lowers the affinity of the analogue to IGF binding proteins allowing it to spend more time in the free state making it 2-3 times as potent as the native form. As there is evidence linking high serum IGF-I levels with cancer risk, interventions with IGF-1 and its analogues should be carefully evaluated (Torres-Alemán I.et al Prog Neurobiol. 2009). IGF-I may be a crucial component of neural homeostasis since disturbed IGF-I input is inevitably linked to perturbed function. Consistent with this, all nerve cells are potential targets of IGF-I actions, including neurons, glia, endothelial, epithelial, and perivascular cells. Indeed, many key cellular processes in the brain are affected by IGF-I's neurotrophic and modulatory actions. IGF-I is an important mediator of neuronal growth, survival and function throughout the lifespan. Many of these functions are likely analogous to those described above for skeletal muscle tissue. IGF-1 has been shown to increase lipolysis in human adipose tissue (Arner P. et al., J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1987 Oct;65(4):732-7.)

So how are people using this compound for ergogenics? A common protocol is to use it from 3-7 days a week at 25-150 ug bilaterally intramuscularly per day in the muscle group worked post workout. I don’t know if this needs to be intermuscularly as IGF-1 secretion from the liver is systemic. Additionally, the modifications made should make the compound less susceptible to degradation so no matter how you inject this compound it will become systemic in a matter of minutes after injection. Whether initial introduction into the muscle of choice makes a difference is a matter of debate. Most users find that the benefits of this compound are limited after 4 weeks of use.


MGF: also known as IGF-1Ec described above, this is produced as a spice variant from the IGF-1 gene in response to mechanical stress at the muscle and or hGH secretion. This peptide differs from other IGF-1 variants in that it's activity is more weighted towards stimulation of proliferation of satellite cells rather than differentiation. All of the caveats of other IGF forms applies to this form as well. It is specific to tissue and to my knowledge is not secreted systemically but follows more of a paracrine/autocrine paradigm. Dosing is similar to IGF-LR3 as protocols are generally from 3-7 days a week at 25-150 ug bilaterally intramuscularly per day in the muscle group worked post workout. Unlike IGF-1 LR3, intramuscular injection may be more aligned with its paracrine/autocrine role.

PEG-MGF: this compound contains the above MFG molecule but is compounded with polyethalene glycol (PEG). This “masks” the MFG from degradative processes in the plasma and cell prolonging its life and activity. Dosage and administration reflects this modification. Generally 50-250 ug are injected intramuscularly 2 days a week.


Note: All of these peptides are rather new to the ergogenic applications and protocols vary greatly. There is no dominant one currently in use nor are there any definitive evidence that any one protocol performs best. I do not promote or condone the use of any of these compounds. None are approved by the FDA or any other governmental body to my knowledge. In fact, it is my belief that these compounds have far more danger associated or to be associated with their use in the near future. They act to stimulate embryonic cells throughout the body to proliferate. As one ages, or in the case of genetic predisposition to cancer, the odds may be significant for contracting a disease state. In other words, weigh your use very carefully. These are not beans and sausages that if you take to much you will get fat. They are more like things that could lead to a long protracted road to death if you are among the unfortunate.
__________________
See Glycomann's articles http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/f497/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Glycomann For This Useful Post:
Thunder (02-28-2011)
  #7  
Old 02-28-2011, 07:30 AM
Thunder's Avatar
Thunder Thunder Is Off Line
Community Veteran

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,223
Thanks: 677
Thanked 361 Times in 322 Posts
Rep Power: 282
Thunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond reputeThunder has a reputation beyond repute
Great postings G.
__________________
A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America ' for an amount of 'up to and including my life.' That is Honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.'
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Thunder For This Useful Post:
Glycomann (02-28-2011)
  #8  
Old 03-23-2011, 10:09 PM
captainbicept captainbicept Is Off Line
Donating Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,960
Thanks: 603
Thanked 662 Times in 523 Posts
Rep Power: 298
captainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond repute
Phenomenol.
Honestly, it was too complex for me to read on the screen.
I needed a hard copy to digest it.
You break it down really well.
__________________
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I .... like you wanna ...., I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.

If you are not ready to give it all; give up.

I'll never do steroids to get stronger. I only do them for the roid rage.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-23-2011, 11:09 PM
Glycomann's Avatar
Glycomann Glycomann Is online now
Lumpy Moderator

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chopping wood or laying pipe.
Posts: 9,933
Thanks: 993
Thanked 4,230 Times in 2,668 Posts
Rep Power: 1488
Glycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond reputeGlycomann has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbicept View Post
Phenomenol.
Honestly, it was too complex for me to read on the screen.
I needed a hard copy to digest it.
You break it down really well.
Thanks bro. I just like writing the stuff.
__________________
See Glycomann's articles http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.com/forums/f497/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-23-2011, 11:19 PM
captainbicept captainbicept Is Off Line
Donating Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,960
Thanks: 603
Thanked 662 Times in 523 Posts
Rep Power: 298
captainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond reputecaptainbicept has a reputation beyond repute
For me this is a great read because this is kind of what Im this is kind of what I am learning some of my classes however it answers alot of those questions some of the topics could allude to but you cant ask this kind of shit in class.
The world of academia keeps any unofficial science, in a locked room with the lights turned off, so no one can ever read whats in there.
Its amazing how conversations dont even want to be had to anything that did not happen in a labratory under completely controlled settings.
Sure lets ignore all the practical usage of igf-1 by patients who are in a state of post-op, or ignore the using burn victim, man with aids, the list goes on forever. To mention ergogenic use is a capital crime.
__________________
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I .... like you wanna ...., I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.

If you are not ready to give it all; give up.

I'll never do steroids to get stronger. I only do them for the roid rage.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to captainbicept For This Useful Post:
wanabe (03-29-2016)
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:18 AM.



Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
follow worldclassbodybuilding at facebook follow worldclassbodybuilding at pinterest follow worldclassbodybuilding at twitter