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  #11  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:49 AM
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GF, i have changed all my windows to the argon gas filled. Last thing that would help is a new front and garage door which are woefully sealed.

I even blew in and extra 12" of insulation in the attic. Still expensive. Most is my HVAC which is only 6 years old but at the time we could only afford a 12 sear.

Trip, you are right. when the become more efficient and the cost comes down they will be far more prevalent. Right now lead acid batteries are the norm to store energy. They are an antiquated design. Li batteries are way better but are super expensive. Also the negative impact of mining the minerals needed for solar in china and eastern Europe and several countries in Africa is very high. Strip mining with no oversight. Workers in Africa all but slaves, many children.

When you drive your tesla down the street thinking you are saving the world and being all smug and better than the rest of us who drive dino burners think about some 10 year old kid in a pit digging all day in horrific conditions for a few pennies.

http://time.com/4939738/electric-car...-rights-congo/
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:53 AM
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Being an Environmental Science with Conservation and Natural Resources major I have done a lot of research on the topic. I have written 3-4 papers that are being used by the school in conservation. It really depends on how much energy you use. The first thing I would do is an energy audit to see where you can do better in energy efficiency. This will cut down on size of the system. Being in Texas you probably have peak energy use in hotter summer months. You need to look at your peak month and ensure you get a system that covers that month. Many energy companies will buy back energy you do not use. In my peak month I need a system that produces 6 kWh of energy, so I have looked into a 8 kWh system. With subsidies in my area this is a $15,000 investment. My utility energy costs over the last three years have been $2,052 in 2016, $1968 in 2017 and $1,776 in 2018. It would pay itself off in 7-10 years. That is if the system only produced enough energy to power my home without the energy company buying energy back. Additionally, reserves are drying up. United States coal reserves have enough coal to power the United States for another 200 years if the population does not grow and energy consumption remains the same (However, if we consumed coal at the same rate as we do now the emissions would make Earth inhabitable by 2100). Known natural gas and petroleum reserves have 100 and 50 years remaining. China is burning through their coal reserves at the rapid rate and will more than likely run out in 30 years. Coal exports will become very lucrative at that point, so the price of coal, the most affordable form of energy, is due to skyrocket soon.
Leftist have been saying we are going to run out of fossil fuels for as long as I can recall. As long as they are cheap there is no incentive to go to unproven, unreliable solar and wind. Both are extremely inefficient. I remember the East Coast elites being all for wind power until they were going to be the tubines off shore to their ocean front properties, then it was "PHUCK wind power"! 7-10 year pay off and then time to reinvest in panels and inverters and do it all over again. Then there is the fact the panels are hazardous waste. Ever seen a silicon mine? Makes coal mining look like a national park. You can't store electric power it is on demand and solar and wind cannot always perform on demand. Also the hotter it is (sunny months) the less efficient the panels become. So if you want solar panels you want to be in sunny Saskatchewan not the southern US.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:52 PM
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Leftist have been saying we are going to run out of fossil fuels for as long as I can recall. As long as they are cheap there is no incentive to go to unproven, unreliable solar and wind. Both are extremely inefficient. I remember the East Coast elites being all for wind power until they were going to be the tubines off shore to their ocean front properties, then it was "PHUCK wind power"! 7-10 year pay off and then time to reinvest in panels and inverters and do it all over again. Then there is the fact the panels are hazardous waste. Ever seen a silicon mine? Makes coal mining look like a national park. You can't store electric power it is on demand and solar and wind cannot always perform on demand. Also the hotter it is (sunny months) the less efficient the panels become. So if you want solar panels you want to be in sunny Saskatchewan not the southern US.
Where do you come up with having to redo them every 7-10 years? I put photovoltaics on commercial buildings just because of bs LEED huggers and the life is roughly 50 years with a 25 year warranty at a cost of about $1 to $1.50 a watt. (And fyi in my old life...last year, lol, I did a major installation at the university with one of the major leading power professor/researchers in the world that proved those cost). But yes, if one buys shitty products, like anything else you get shitty results and yes payback takes longer than one would like but we do need to get alternate energy and stop the political bullshit.

But for jipped, you could start with a few panels, say 4,and inverters with a do it yourself installation (not that hard)and put money you save back and add on as you go.
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
Leftist have been saying we are going to run out of fossil fuels for as long as I can recall. As long as they are cheap there is no incentive to go to unproven, unreliable solar and wind. Both are extremely inefficient. I remember the East Coast elites being all for wind power until they were going to be the tubines off shore to their ocean front properties, then it was "PHUCK wind power"! 7-10 year pay off and then time to reinvest in panels and inverters and do it all over again. Then there is the fact the panels are hazardous waste. Ever seen a silicon mine? Makes coal mining look like a national park. You can't store electric power it is on demand and solar and wind cannot always perform on demand. Also the hotter it is (sunny months) the less efficient the panels become. So if you want solar panels you want to be in sunny Saskatchewan not the southern US.
Yep, as long as production of fossil fuels continue to receive massive government subsidies there are no incentives for anyone to go to renewable resources. Subsidies would need to be shifted.

I agree, wind can be a problem, as most areas do not generate enough wind to turn the blades. Also, the windmills require more than 1/4 acre of space.
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Friggemall View Post
Where do you come up with having to redo them every 7-10 years? I put photovoltaics on commercial buildings just because of bs LEED huggers and the life is roughly 50 years with a 25 year warranty at a cost of about $1 to $1.50 a watt. (And fyi in my old life...last year, lol, I did a major installation at the university with one of the major leading power professor/researchers in the world that proved those cost). But yes, if one buys shitty products, like anything else you get shitty results and yes payback takes longer than one would like but we do need to get alternate energy and stop the political bullshit.

But for jipped, you could start with a few panels, say 4,and inverters with a do it yourself installation (not that hard)and put money you save back and add on as you go.
True. Each company I have contacted for installation quotes had 25-30 year warranties.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:47 AM
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Windmills actually are quite effective. The huge ones you see once paid for are virtually free.

The changes are happening, the initial costs and maintenace costs for gas, nuclear, coal on a 50 year life cycle are extreme, whereas large solar and wind, once initial costs are recovered, the safety and maintenance costs are drastically in green energies favor.

It is going to take time, as large industrial and commercial require variable instantaneous power demand due to loads, where as a home is very static and predictable.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:45 AM
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There is a big wind farm in south Oklahoma near where I used to go 4 wheeling and camping. It is right near the arbuckle mountains (more like hills) and they are always turning even if there is no wind near the ground. I have no idea how god they are.

As for solar the panels I looked at last a LONG time but the batteries do not. lead acid batteries are good for 3-7 years depending on which kind they are. In my brief research I would need a bunch of batteries and the lithium ion are so cost prohibitive. Hell the panels are cheap compared.

If it were cheaper I would go for it if I could pay it off in say 6 years with. But then that is at or beyond the life of the lead acid battery and I would have to replace or if I went LI battery then I would be looking at a 11-12 year pay off.

I think tech will catch up but not yet. Or if I was staying in one spot like you said GF.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:24 AM
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So if you want solar panels you want to be in sunny Saskatchewan not the southern US.
That's a valid statement and something a lot of people fail to realize. Temperature coefficient is a significant factor in determining a solar panels efficiency. Some of that can be negated by installation location. A black rooftop is not the ideal location contrary to popular installations here in Florida. Above 95 degrees the efficiency drops dramatically.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:47 AM
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Windmills actually are quite effective. The huge ones you see once paid for are virtually free.

The changes are happening, the initial costs and maintenace costs for gas, nuclear, coal on a 50 year life cycle are extreme, whereas large solar and wind, once initial costs are recovered, the safety and maintenance costs are drastically in green energies favor.

It is going to take time, as large industrial and commercial require variable instantaneous power demand due to loads, where as a home is very static and predictable.
The are effective, but not as a private resident. They take up a lot of space and cost a lot. Quotes I received were $30,000 for a system that produces 5 kWh and $50,000 for a system that produces 10 kWh. They would not work in my area anyways, as there is not enough wind.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:52 AM
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That's a valid statement and something a lot of people fail to realize. Temperature coefficient is a significant factor in determining a solar panels efficiency. Some of that can be negated by installation location. A black rooftop is not the ideal location contrary to popular installations here in Florida. Above 95 degrees the efficiency drops dramatically.
More energy is rejected in electricity production than is used and heat is primary reason. This is problem in all sources of energy, except for hydroelectric. The problem with hydroelectric energy is nearly every water source that can be used to produce enough energy to be effective has already been dammed. Additionally, dams cause a host of other ecological problems downstream, mainly disrupting sediment flow and waters downstream tend to be warmer causing loss in biodiversity.
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