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  #1  
Old 04-23-2018, 12:56 PM
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Proviron with Tren

So, the discussion has came about many times over in regards to depression,aggression and/or anxiety,or other sides when on cycle/blast when utilizing Trenbolone, or at times other compounds!

Let's discuses Tren and one compound that can help assist with side effects that can be unbearable for most,especially anxiety..So lets talk about this shall we?

Please allow me to illustrate one of shrouded and seldom discussed Drugs in the whole anabolic circuit, with one of the most underrated/pronounced effects ever, that somehow has failed to be discussed upon the masses...

"Proviron" Mesterolone

Most of you that have ever took the breakfast of champions "Methandrostenolone", That's right, I'm talking about Dbol. What's the most apparent and conspicuous effects that takes place while taking Dbol? If you were about to say the "sense of well-being" than your correct. One of the most profound and desirable effects that we can have during a cycle..Now, how about after a cycle? Or for longer duration's? But we all know that many of us practice moderation with harsh orals,or I would hope,But, have no concerns with elevated toxicity here!

One of the greatest characteristics about Proviron that has been shrouded and seldomly discussed is it's "Antidepressant" properties. With this being said, when it was first developed it was widely utilized in treatments for Bi-polar,OCD and Anxiety. As we know that depression is basically a chemical imbalance that comes about through the "Signaling" issues between receptors. Proviron improves the quality of the "channels" that the cells use to communicate and interact. Thus, a similar effect with Dbol where it drastically improves the sense of well being in users. Much like Antidepressants, SSRI (Selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor, and/or,SNRI (Serotonin-nor-epinephrinere-uptake inhibitor)

What I'm about to share is a double blind study that clearly shows undoubtedly astonishing results in the patients! An other great reason to consider this compound.
Why proviron is underestimated, the world may never know

Tren is the compound that's well known for having a love hate relationship with most users. Most will deem it a necessary evil. But, in fact it doesn't have to be classified as evil after all.

Allow me to intro some clinical studies that have been conducted with a compound most commonly known as Proviron-trade name (Mesterolone).This agent posses some amazing characteristics with Antidepressant properties, as well Anti-anxiety.
It works by also metabolizing and being recognized through the endocrine as (other) a neurosteroid,effectively functioning as a so-called proneurosteroid (testosterone is also recognized as one).. These steroids synthesized in the brain (Proviron especially) and have effects on brain function,In addition to their actions on neuronal membrane receptors,improving the quality of the channels that cells use to communicate and interact.

Proviron/or Masteron and Tren (Masteron can be utilized due to it's targeting similarities)
Proviron(mesterolone) will exert inhibitory actions on neurotransmission, acting as potent positive allosteric modulator of the GABA receptor (This is crucial concerning Tren-Insomnia as healthly function levels ofGABA will produce a stable sleep state/environment for rest) and possess, in no particular order, antidepressant,stress-reducing, feeling warm/fuzzy/rewarding,pro-social, anti-aggressive(huge consider tren sides),pro-sexual,sedative/pro-sleep,cognitive-memory improvement..The list goes on!

(Where does this apply with Tren? It can aid all the way around with individuals how are sensitive or not.From the social aspect,overwhelming sense of anxiety,lack of sleep,basically everything stated above that may apply with the usage of tren and the onset of its unwanted side)

In addition to this information, an individual can also utilized masteron (Drostanolonein) in conjunction with Proviron, running both concurrent may yield a great synergenic effect,each compound will compliment one an other. Also the -

Further more Proviron is a DHT derivative. DHT compounds assist with hardening of the physique, lack of water retention,increased sex drive..Hardening of the physique and lack of water retention go hand in hand. Proviron assists with this, The body recognizes proviron as a DHT,This causes a direct hardening affect on the muscle tissue (Like mast posses,but mast is much more stronger IMO) The increase in hardness comes from a reduction in free estrogen levels, because proviron has the ability to 'latch-on' to the estrogen binding enzymes,It competes so to speak for its position,it does this aggressively, thus decreasing water retention. Also the the lack of aromatization and the fact that the drug is prototypical androgen, causes a significant shift in the body’s estrogen/testosteroneratio.As proviron's atomic structure it is incapable of forming estrogen. It also has properties with AR's.. Increasing the AR expression, proviron/DHT uptake to further increase AR expression, repeating this process over and over ...
This allows other AAS compounds to appear to be amplified with there effects,assisting the compounds - (What does this mean?) It can be a master key so to speak, having multiple functions - It binds aggressively to the AR's and SHBG, thus it can/may increase the activity of other STEROIDS in the system) - This is an added bonus!


Functions concerning the neurotransmitter/receptor and how it works:Below is a image illustrating the neurotransmitter/receptor and how it functions, also I will include some real actual studies conducted with proven results expressing the benefits of this compound (proviron)
Keep in mind that these doses may seem extreme,its been proven time and time again that such significant dosages are not needed to yield the effect. Merely a daily intake of 50-100 will suffice for almost anyone!


Citation
Database: PsycINFO
[ Journal Article ]
A comparison of the antidepressant effects of a synthetic androgen (mesterolone) and amitriptyline in depressed men.
Vogel, William; Klaiber, Edward L.; Broverman, Donald M.
Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, Vol 46(1), Jan 1985, 6-8.

Abstract

26 depressed male outpatients were randomly assigned to 14 wks of treatment with either mesterolone or amitriptyline in a double-blind parallel treatment design. Ss completed the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression and a symptom checklist each week. Findings reveal that the drugs were equally effective in reducing depressive symptoms. Mesterolone produced significantly fewer adverse side effects than amitriptyline and did not produce hypomania or tachycardia, recognized side effects of amitriptyline. (10 ref) (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2013 APA, all rights reserved)

Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol. 1984 Jun;6(6):331-7.
The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).
Itil TM, Michael ST, Shapiro DM, Itil KZ.
Abstract
Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.

Information confirming no HTPA shutdown/suppression during PCT

These are some research articles that may justify the use of low/moderate dose Proviron during PCT:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AAKVAAG, A., and S. B. STROMME. "The effect of mesterolone administration to normal men on the pituitary-testicular function."Acta endocrinologica 77.2 (1974): 380-386.

ABSTRACT
Mesterolone (1α-methyl-5α-dihydrotestosterone) has been given to 10 normal men, age 24–27 years, and the effect on the plasma levels of ICSH, FSH and testosterone has been studied.No effect on the plasma levels of ICSH and FSH could be detected. After 4 weeks on 75 mg mesterolone per day a significant (P < 0.01) drop in the mean value for plasma testosterone level was observed, 5.2 to 4.0 ng/ml. After another 4 weeks on 150 mg mesterolone per day a further decrease to 3.5 ng/ml was found.During mesterolone administration the protein binding of testosterone in plasma was significantly reduced, and it appeared that the level of free (non-protein bound) testosterone in diluted plasma remained unchanged, 0.37 and 0.41 ng/ml, before and after mesterolone administration respectively.The results suggest that mesterolone given in doses of 75 and 150 mg/day to normal men does not suppress the pituitary ICSH production or the testicular testosterone production
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GORDON, R.D., THOMAS, M.J., POYNTING, J.M. and STOCKS, A.E. (1975), Effect of Mesterolone on Plasma L.H., F.S.H. and Testosterone. Andrologia, 7: 287–296. doi: 10.1111/j.1439-0272.1975.tb00942.x

Summary
It has been claimed that orally administered mesterolone, unlike l7a-methyl testo- sterone, does not suppress endogenous gonadotrophins and testesterone. To investi- gate this, both drugs were administered, in turn, to four normal men and plasma te- stosterone, L.H. and F.S.H. were measured serially. Mesterolone administration was associated in all four subjects with significant and similar falls in plasma testosterone, but significant suppression of gonadotrophins took place in only two of them. Any changes which occured were apparent by the end of the first week of therapy. Administration of half the dose of 17a-methyl testosterone to the same four subjects caused significant suppression of testosterone in each and suppression of one or both gonadotrophins in each.
In longer term studies in patients (5-30 months) involving serial measurements at intervals of one to two months, there was evidence of significant suppression of L.H. and F.S.H. by 17a-methyl testosterone, but not by mesterolone, which was clinically a less effective androgen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WANG, C., BURGER, H.G., de KRETSER, D.M., DULMANIS, A., HUDSON, B., KEOGH, E.J. and SUTHERS, M.B. (1974), Effect of Mesterolone on Serum FSH, LH and Plasma Testosterone in Normal Men. Andrologia, 6: 111–117. doi: 10.1111/j.1439-0272.1974.tb01604.x

Summary
To determine whether the claim that mesterolone, an orally active androgen, does not cause suppression of gonadotrophin secretion, two groups of five normal men were treated with 100 and 200 mg. daily respectively for 7 days. Serial measurements of serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone were made on samples taken at 15 minute intervals over 2 hr both before and during treatment. Modest falls in FSH, LH and testosterone levels were observed in both groups, the percentage suppression being 21% and 18% for FSH, 19% and 15% for LH and 9% and 8% for testosterone at the lower and higher dosage levels respectively.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

200mg is a far greater dose than I would deploy during PCT (50mgs is ideal). From these studies and other articles we see have read, it's clear that there is almost minimal/no influence on the HTPA, any effect would be absolute minimal and negated by other appropriate compounds used during that period (HCG, Aromasin, Nolvadex and HGH)...

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Old 04-23-2018, 12:59 PM
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Old 04-23-2018, 06:56 PM
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Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.

Information confirming no HTPA shutdown/suppression during PCT

These are some research articles that may justify the use of low/moderate dose Proviron during PCT:


hello vision, I'm quoting some of your article above. I'm confused here... if proviron decreased plasma test and protein bound test levels, wouldn't that mean it's suppressing our endogenous testosterone production?
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:36 PM
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I always liked running proviron with tren many years back.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:49 PM
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I have often said I’d never run tren without mast because the mast (with similar effects as the priviron mentioned in this article), makes many of the unmanageable mental side effects of tren go away for me or be minimized. I reasoned that a strong DHT derivative is a must.

Great post on a great topic.
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myosaurus View Post
Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.

Information confirming no HTPA shutdown/suppression during PCT

These are some research articles that may justify the use of low/moderate dose Proviron during PCT:


hello vision, I'm quoting some of your article above. I'm confused here... if proviron decreased plasma test and protein bound test levels, wouldn't that mean it's suppressing our endogenous testosterone production?
Hey brother, great to see you over here...We've shared info and had some good interactions on some other forums I believe, PM I if I'm not mistaken..

Yes that is true that it lowered HIGH test levels ( hyperandrogenism) that possessed HIGH levels above the norm, but the parameters in which they decreased did not lower that much to a suppressive level in which would be considered HTPA shut down, in fact these subjects possessed much higher levels on the top end of the scale above the average and norm, yielding a lowered level but well within a strong and high level, drops were seen from 5.2 to 4.0 ng/ml. After another 4 weeks on 150 mg mesterolone per day a further decrease to 3.5 ng/ml was found.During mesterolone administration the protein binding of testosterone in plasma was significantly reduced, and it appeared that the level of free (non-protein bound) testosterone in diluted plasma remained unchanged, 0.37 and 0.41 ng/ml, before and after mesterolone administration respectively.The results suggest that mesterolone given in doses of 75 and 150 mg/day to normal men does not suppress the pituitary ICSH production or the testicular testosterone..

Its states that in normal males they are basically impervious to its effects, and those with extreme and rare high levels dropped merely a few digits, in the low singles.. Example would be say high 800's-900's and a drop of 5.2-4.0.. Respectably, these subjects are still well within the higher parameter.. Was the drop due to conversion of bound test into FREE FLOWING more available test? That's possible.. If a total was measured in the assay like stated 4-5 weeks later, its expresses plasma levels and NOT free flowing test, but it did suggest these levels were not effected (but that was the only snap shot at that moment)..Further more the pituitary product in the normal subjects remained unchanged.. I think its fair to say that it's not suppressive in nature, but can alter and effect rare instances of extreme "hyperandrogenism", almost as if it's regulating the system balances and checks, creating a balance within the static system..???

Intriguing nonetheless...
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:57 AM
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Best write up on the benefits of proviron, I have ever seen in a single thread.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:03 AM
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Best write up on the benefits of proviron, I have ever seen in a single thread.
I owe much of the credit to those that conducted the studies, and other anecdote reports and bro-science reviews by our fellow peers over the years (bro-science). I worded this to the best of my ability for a better understanding for all of us..I feel the studies were pivotal to support everything that I advocated...Due to the lack of investments in studies in which the endocrine society has no support/funding with, we need to continuously provide our peers with our very own reviews and anecdote feedback & experiences, because at the end of the day, we are our very own science experiments. This may not be a one size fits all way of life, but we all share the same common goal,that is seeking knowledge and real life data that can be support for a greater understanding.. let's all keep on keeping on, we need to keep each other in the know!
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:50 AM
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I've used proviron for years and love it.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:01 PM
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I've used proviron for years and love it.
I wont B&C without it.. I ramp dosages, during cruise I use my TRT dose with only 200mg mastE and 25-50mgs of prov.. I feel amazing at this dosages
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