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  #11  
Old 08-14-2014, 11:22 PM
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It works for a while but it's a temporary fix. You take the drug away and the underlying biology takes over. You stay on it a long time and it loses effect. Recovery and the rest depends on your genetics and what you've done to yourself.
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2014, 01:13 AM
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Caber + hcg worked really well for me
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  #13  
Old 08-15-2014, 01:12 PM
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Ah, ok. Especially since deca floats around for along time after use. Thanks for the clarification glyco.
  #14  
Old 08-15-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Glycomann View Post
I would guess it is from 19 nors. Sorry it happened Bubba. My dangle isn't doing the dance as much as it use to these days. I've been off for 8 weeks and in that could care less mode. It works but it doesn't care so much. i am old.
Try some proviron everyday.
  #15  
Old 08-15-2014, 04:16 PM
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This thread has turned into a listing of everyone's own remedies. From what I've seen over the years, for a lot of guys, most of these ancillary drug interventions offer only temporary relief. Take the drug(s) away and the symptoms come back. Sure you can rotate the drugs like caber->viagra-> hCG-> Clomid-> PT-141 or combinations but in the end at the end of the day you take the drug or drugs away and the underlying biology dictates the condition. If the biology does not support sexual function then there is poor sexual function. If the underlying biology can support sexual function then then sexual function will resume. Also there can be a period of refraction from the drug use. There is always a compensatory period after drug use.
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2014, 12:12 AM
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I've been using it for 30yrs and never had a problem. Neither has any of the people I know.
Maybe the difference is the way I do my cycles. 3 weeks on 3 weeks off.
My liver enzymes have always stayed in the normal range, no dead meat problems ever.
I have experienced a rise in cholesterol but I'm 58yrs old. My doctor has prescribed astorvastatin and now no problems.
Nandrolone Deconate has always been used as a base 200mg a week like people use test. Everything else I use changes. I seems like I plateau using the same combinations all the time.
The ones I can't use:
Tren- I always get the cough
Equipose- I run a fever and every joint in my body aches
Metheltestosterone- I turn into a giant zit, I break out in God awful boils
  #17  
Old 11-17-2014, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Glycomann View Post
A few words on deca and impotence... I would place an estimated guess that 90% of deca users experience some sexual dysfunction from nandrolones. That includes all esters, decanoate being the worst. Most already understand that nandrolones are a strong stimulator of the progesterone receptor. This is good and bad. There is a lot of debate over by what mechanism nandrolones lead to impotence. Personally I think it has to do with the progesterone receptors in the arcuate nucleus in the brain and those cells local secretion of prolactin but I really don't want to get into that here.

Here I want to describe what I've seen over the years in deca use. In the 80s everyone used deca. It was like an AAS base. A lot of guys got the dreaded droop from the drug and most machoed it up and said "not I". Well the gym groupies would let on what the real deal was. Lots and lots of guys have the problem. That's pretty much fact as most can reason from the 1000s of posts of users dealing with the problem.

It is unfortunate but the problem lasts a long time and its onset can be unpredictable. So, for instance, a user might do a full cycle with deca and experience only mild symptoms like increased sexual endurance, which might be viewed as a good side effect given the right girlfriend or wife. Then 4 weeks into the next run with it Dickie doesn't work at all. So the user goes through the common hoops listening to interweb lore upping the ratio of test to deca, adding in caber, hCG use, adding in proviron, adding in prami, and, while some relief might come from some of these interventions, nothing lasting comes from any of the.

Nandrolones seem to really whack the hormone axis in a way that lasts for many many months. The user might go completely off finally. Then the real fun begins. Size is lost and months after being off the impotence remains. So there is a tremendous blow to the ego. He has lost a lot of gains and his dick does not work mostly or at all. So he returns to AAS use convinced that he is hypogonadal and permanently so. On the test he goes and, while there might be some initial relief for a few weeks, the impotence returns. Now if he stays away from 19 nor compounds (including trenbolones) the impotence might subside but if any nandrolones are added in the situation will persist for much much longer. So this is a vicious cycle of confusion and suffering and the user will try many many things to relieve the situation... caverject, Viagra, Cialis, more prami, more caber, PT-141 etc... At various points he throws his hands up and adds in nandrolones reasoning that if the problem is permanent then at least he is going to benefit from the muscle mass and joint relief of the drug. This only makes the problem worse and longer lasting.

So what to do?

1. GO OFF!! If the user actually cycles (i.e. go off and on in a periodic fashion) and is under 50, he can recover from AAS use. That means he can go completely off AAS and eventually everything goes back to normal and Dickie works, natural gains can be made etc. This can take a year or even more depending on the user and what he has done to himself. I will say right here that most modern users will not take a year off. To them that is like being told to eat cat food and drink vinegar for a year. But it will work. The problem is it is a long process and the user will constantly be on the interwebs listening to every clown that can hit the keys on his PC telling him he is permanently damaged and to get back on immediately and do this or that protocol. So it rarely happens that a user will go off for long enough to recover. Another complication is that most modern users never ever ever come off so the user may have been on for several years. Such a situation can, but does not always, lead to permanent hypogonadism. So,the user reasons that going off for a year is ridiculous.

2. Stay on but away from trenbolones and nandrolones forever!! Eventually the symptoms of impotence will subside. They may not be completely resolved. Most don't understand that use of supraphysiologic levels of androgens/attenuated androgens does perturb the endocrine system. Since sexual function relies upon some resemblance of a normal endocrine system it should not be too difficult to understand that some level of impotence still will be experienced especially if nandrolones have thrown the system for a loop. However, eventually through nandrolone and trenbolone abstinence the problem will become more manageable with use of support medications.

3. Go off for a trial period!! Go off for 4-5 months. Do a strong PCT with hCG, Clomid and some Nolvadex and then stay off for some time. Go take a sailing class or something to keep your mind off your BBing goals. Get to the gym 3-4 days a week but stop obsessing about your body for 4-5 months. Wear a damn sweatshirt in the gym and stay away from the mirrors. Enjoy life for a while. Your body will come back in less than 8 weeks once you get back at it hard and add in the smallest amount of AAS again since your body will be at a new rested, recovered and eager state after the break.

During the break a number of sufferers will experience return of sex drive and erectile function. If that happens it was worth the hiatus. Then stay far far away from nandrolones and trenbolones or the problem will return and you will be older and further down the road of AAS use where recovery may be more difficult.

So cliff notes:

1. Nandrolones are a bitch
2. Impotence cocktails offer no or only temporary relief especially when the sufferer stays on AAS.
3. Onset of impotence related to nandrolones in unpredictable. It can happen suddenly even after nandrolone use without difficulty.
4. Abstinence from nandrolone (and trenbolone) use is probably the best way to resolve nandrolone related impotence.
5. Resolution of nandrolone related impotence may take a year or more and demands that no other 19 nor AAS are used during that period of recovery and ever again if the user wishes to avoid the experience again.
6. Trenbolone use can also lead to impotence so beware.
Fantastic read was searching for some information and this came up.
  #18  
Old 11-20-2014, 04:02 AM
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Will you get impotence if you used Nandrolone phenyl propionate? Im assuming yes
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:04 AM
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Will you get impotence if you used Nandrolone phenyl propionate? Im assuming yes
Yes. The common belief is that it will less likely be a problem but the problem is inherent to the base compound nandrolone, which is the same in the decanoate and phenylpropionate ester forms. Nandrolone will bind and activate the progesterone receptor. In the connection between the hypothalamus and pituitary, the hypothalamo-neurohypophyseal tract, there is a group of neurons that contain active progesterone receptor. these neurons are stimulated at orgasm releasing prolactin. Prolactin is what leads to the refractory period after orgasm, the period after orgasm when sexual activity is not possible. This prolactin secretion is dependent upon progesterone and progesterone receptor. Nandrolone essentially stimulate the PR in the hypothalamo-neurohypophyseal tract leading to a perpetual state similar to the refractory period experienced after orgasm. Once the system has been perturbed in this way recovery is long and unpredictable.
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  #20  
Old 11-20-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glycomann View Post
Yes. The common belief is that it will less likely be a problem but the problem is inherent to the base compound nandrolone, which is the same in the decanoate and phenylpropionate ester forms. Nandrolone will bind and activate the progesterone receptor. In the connection between the hypothalamus and pituitary, the hypothalamo-neurohypophyseal tract, there is a group of neurons that contain active progesterone receptor. these neurons are stimulated at orgasm releasing prolactin. Prolactin is what leads to the refractory period after orgasm, the period after orgasm when sexual activity is not possible. This prolactin secretion is dependent upon progesterone and progesterone receptor. Nandrolone essentially stimulate the PR in the hypothalamo-neurohypophyseal tract leading to a perpetual state similar to the refractory period experienced after orgasm. Once the system has been perturbed in this way recovery is long and unpredictable.
Thanks Glycomann!
That opened the door again.

If you use a prolactin inhibitor/reducer on cycle, like prami, would this lessen the likely hood you could have problems off cycle? Also If you get it on cycle, then it might be a problem. But if you never get it, can you get it off cycle just from nandrolone? Finally if you used prami extensively would you get a high prolactin rebound if you came off?

sorry about the questions, I like to think I will know the implications of my actions if i choose to use any of these things!

Last edited by beau1; 11-20-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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